Beyond the Screen: A Baithak with Ravish Kumar

Himali Thakur, Class of 2019

“Jo so rahe hoonge woh bhi aajyenge yeh soch kar ki kahiin band karaane wale toh nahi aagaye?”

Last week the Office of Student Life and the Department of Performing Arts inaugurated a series of non-stage performance and/or conversation sessions at Ashoka University, Baithak. The inaugural Baithak on 17th February was with Ravish Kumar, the well-known anchor and senior executive att NDTV India. Kumar hosts the daily news show Prime Time, where he currently runs a “Naukri series” — a series that investigates the lack of quality jobs for youth in India.

Kumar began by introducing himself with his usual sense of humour: “mujhse kaha gaya tha ki apna biodata bhej dein. Ab yeh sab nahi hota merese.” As the students laughed, Kumar said that he believed that he had much more left to do before he could sit down and write about what he had done. For nearly twenty years, Kumar has stayed with NDTV, on which he said, “Kabhi-kabhi lagta hai talaab ka paani banke rahe gaya. Lekin kabhi lagta hai ki aisa talaab baney rahein jahaan khoob log paani peene aaein toh woh bhi theek hai.” With this introduction, Kumar launched an afternoon of Hindi poetry and political discussion — the two often overlapping.

The conversation with the students went on for a good one-and-a-half hours, interspersed with Kumar reciting poetry by famous Hindi poets like Avinash Misra, Shrikant Verma, and Kedarnath Singh. Kumar discussed several questions raised by audience members, including questions of independent journalism, the role of academics on “ground reality”, the walls of privelege, and so on. By the virtue of the setting, the major theme during the discussion was the role of universities in politics. Kumar thinks that universities have a huge responsibilty in the political scenario these days. One could say that he values universities for how they teach us to read the news. Kumar dislikes the political discourse in the media, going as far as saying that the hostile debate on television and in print media is a threat to democracy. If there were better and more universities and schools in the country, the lazy and dangerous political discourse in our media would not be allowed to continue. “Akhbaar khareedne se, usko padhne se, akhbaar padhna nahin aajaata.” Our universities teach us nothing if they don’t teach us how to be alert about the news around us. Education equips us with the vigilance that is needed to sustain democracy in today’s age.

It is not that Kumar does not recognise that Ashoka University is a privileged space even amongst privileged spaces. “Hum, aap, sab priveleged,” he said in response to a question. Not everyone can have access to quality education in the near future. This is a fact that Kumar repeatedly bemoaned over the course of his talk. “Begusarai mein ek college hai jahan saath hazaar ladkiyaan padhti hain or naun teacher?” That, however, does not mean that we cannot share our knowledge with others. Kumar urged everyone present to be vocal about what they see and hear. Even if we are criticised for being academics who are divorced from ‘reality’ (a concept that Kumar challenged as being constructed), we bring another perspective. It is our responsibility to speak up, and what matters is that we fulfil that duty. If someone wants to listen to what we share and take something positive from it, it is their choice.

Kumar recited a poem, from Shrikant Verma’s book collection Magadha, that neatly encapsulates his point:

Koi cheenkhta tak nahi, iss dar se, ki Magadha ki shaanti bhang na hojaye.

Magadha ko banaye rakhna hai

Toh Magadha mein shaanti rehani hi chahiye.

After the talk, The Edict got the chance for an interview Ravish Kumar, which you can find below:

Himali: Aap ko lagta hai ki aapke show ke demographics mein “new” generation ke viewers hain? Aur aise viewers kya politically active hain?

Ravish: Mujhe lagta hai ki iske viewers hain. Kaiin log samajhte hain ki kissi ka bhi attention 3 minute se jyada nahi hota hai. Aap kuch 20 minute se jyada bolte hain toh koi usse nahi sunta hai. Main isse nahi agree karta hoon. 3 minute mein aap ek kitaab toh nahi padh sakte hain? Aap ka kaam hai viewership buildup karna. Aap kaise banaate hain, woh aap ki responsibility hai. Kuch logon ke liye jab tak pradhanmantri ka decision, ya koi controversy na dikhe, tab tak akhbaar “akhbaar” nahi hai. Aise jo log aas-paas hote hain, woh humein down kardete hain. Woh kehte hain ki, “Aap ko toh Padmaavat ki controversy pe [show] karna chahiye tha”. Padmaavat par maine ek bhi show nahi kiya. Ek report kiya tha jab Gurgaon mein bachoon ki bus pe violence hua tha. Kyun ki yeh sab agenda throw kiye jaate hain.

Toh, viewer milta hai. Jaise aap child abuse pe [focus] karein. Mere paas ek doctor Bangalore se aain thin iss story ke saath. Unhein maine kahaa ki, “Yeh aap pe depend karta hai ki aap mujhe kaise educate karte hain [iss topic] par over a period of time. Toh aap sochiye ki kaise images honge, kya kahaaniyaan hongi. Aur aapse baat karke mein bataa sakta hoon ki aapka baat karne ka tarika theek nahi hain”. Toh ghabra gaiin woh. “Kuch force hona chahiye! Apne subject mein commitment hona chahiye.”

Darshak ko aap hamesha nahi blame kar sakte. Agar aap child abuse [jaise topic] par ache se present kareinge, toh log dekheinge. Yeh mera vishvaas iss 20 saal mein aaya hai; baaki log shaayad nahi kareinge. Shaayad mujhe bhi lagta tha ki “NGO type story hai”, kyunki usse ek dead tarike se bataaya jaata tha. Ab mujhe lagta hai mujhe bataana chahiye. Agar meine ab itna experience liya hai, itni following hasil ki hai, toh meine kiss liye ki hai? Toh mein bolta hoon ki agar aap mere fan ho, toh dekho ye subject, padho ye, jaano. Toh, darshak mil jaate hain, aisa nahi hai. Aur woh aur intense debate ki demand karte hain, ki humein aur information chahiye.

Baithak mein social media par bhi questions aaye the. Jin logon ke paas social media par access hai, woh iss space mein aakar debates toh karte hain, [kya] uska koi on-ground effect hota hai?

Patches mein, acchi khabarein hai. Jab humlog Facebook or blogging shuru kar rahe the, toh mujhe yeh accha lagta tha ki bahoot saari ladkiyaan jamke likhthi thin. Woh apne aap ko express kar rahin thi. Yeh Hindi public space mein nayaa tha — sexuality se leker beauty — har cheez ko lekar woh likh rahin thi. Woh display karna badi baat thi kyunki unke network mein unke family ke log aur sabkoi [the], lekin woh politically express kar rahin thi apne aap ko.

Lekin, jaise hi troll army ka time aayaa, woh dhire-dhire receed kar gaiin hai. Toh ab bahoot se log inbox mein likhti hain, saamne nahin likhti hai. Aisa kyun hai ki woh ye baat comments mein nahi kahe sakti? Jabki usne aisa kuch agitate karne waali baat nahi kari. Kuch log bataate hain ki iske baad troll army unko chase karte hain. Unko threaten karte hain toh unko lagta hai ki, “kaun itna bawaal le?” Hamein inn khataron ka khayaal rakhna chahiye. Jaroor kissi-kissi topic ke liye, social media krantikaari kaam karta hai.

Mujhe lagta hai ki yeh sahi metrics nahi hain. Ki isse hum naa maan lein ki woh kuch alternative soch rahein hain, yaa aur bhi kuch cheezein associated hain [toh] unko lekar log critical ho gaye hain. Woh thoda relieve hona ka jariya zaroor hai — jaise pressure valve se release hota hai. Lekin usmein ye dekhna hai ki political parties or mainstream media aagaya hai. Inn donnone, margin ke jo log hain — jo idhar-udhar popular hain — unhein jo top ke log hain, woh inhiin ka hota hai. Toh, ant mein bahut kam space rahe jaata hai. Mein itna utsahit hokar nahi dekhta ki issko democratize kar diya. Lekin mujhe lagta hai ki ek space provide kar diya hai, jahan par hum aapka political preference jaan gaye hain, aur usko manipulate kar sakte hain.

Aapko lagta hai ki “hum ladkiyon ke liye hain”, aise rhetoric ko lekar politics mein log aage jayenge?

Politics aur sarkar jab bhi ladkiyon ki baat karti hain, woh feminism ki baat nahi karti. Woh ek tarah ke patriarchal setup mein slogan deti hain, “Beti padhao, beti bachao”. Kaun bachao? Tum kaun hote ho bachane wale? Tumne bachaya hai, jo tum bol rahe ki “Beti padhao, beti bachao”. Tum na padha rahe ho, na bacha rahe ho. Woh kabhi feminist nahi hote; woh uske image ko istemaal karte hain, ki hamaari sarkar mehilaon ka dhyaan rakh rahi hai. Isse lagta hai ki woh feminism se draw kar rahe hain. Lekin woh patriarchy ke system ko chedh-chadh nahi karte hain. Aap political party mein jaake khud woman hain, lekin represent patriarchy ko karti hain. Aap khud ko bhi represent nahi kar sakte. Pura setup aisa hai. Candidate chunne se lekar. Kahaan koi ground par koi MPs ya, MLA ya koi bahoot promising hain? Hain ginnene ke liye.

Yeh “amma”, “didi”, “behenji” naam [female politicians] ke followers dete hain. Ye party se aata hai. Toh media usko carry kar leta hai. Phir woh likha jaane lagta hai. Woh “chachi”, “nani” kehte rahein, lekin kya woh independent politics kar sakti hain? Aap koi party mukhyaalaya mein dekhiye, uss space ka adhyaayan karein. Isme auraton ko kya-kya space hai? Aur auraton ko ka kaisa space hai? Kya unke darwaaze ke baahar bheed hai?

Iss par India mein debate koi karega?

Hona chahiye. Chote-chote space mein hota hai. Broader space mein nahi hota. Dekhiye ki pechle teen-chaar saalon mein ladkiyon ke space pe kitna hamala hua. BHU mein ladkiyon ka protest kya tha? Ki hamein raat mein nikalne diya jaye. Toh usmein bhi bi-partisan debate hua. Ek dum se female vs. male debate nahi hua. Jo bhi auratein thiin, [woh] ya toh chup thiin apni political party ke liye, ya phir chota-mota likh diya ke “hinsa nahi honi chahiye”. Yeh divide hua jisse pata chalta hai, ki jo bhi samajh hai feminism ki, bahoot hi exclusive hai. Uska distribution logon tak nahi hua hai. Unse kahin jyada behetar gareeb mehilaen hain woh apne sangarsh se jyada space hasil kar paati hain. Ya dussere jo media mein female commentator. Woh sab bolte rahein hain, lekin koi bhi as a women force protest nahi kar paayein. Kyun ki unko apni political or religious loyalty ko apne aurat hone ki loyalty se jyada saamne laana pada. Aur ye kissi bhi issue ke context mein dikhta hai.

Aap ne discussion mein kaha ki students to bolna chahiye. Lekin kahaan bole? Kaun sun raha hai?

Aap jahan hain, wahin boliye. Sahi bataate hain. Abhi mein gaadi main bethoonga toh usko raaste bhar samajhate chaloonga. Yeh hi bolna hai. Yeh aap ka kaam hai. Hum sab bahoot privileged hain. Yeh kitaab kaun padhe ga? Mein isko padhoonga na, toh mein iss par Facebook pe jaake likhoonga. Do aadmi bolenge ki “humne bhi khareed li; yeh dekhiye photo”. Mere bahoot sare dost hain jo bahoot saare kitaabein padhte hain. Lekin unhein kabhi kitaab ki charcha karte nahin dekha. Mein sochta hoon ki yeh toh bhayaanak consumer hai! Ekdum se Bikaner ke chips ke tarah gatke jaa raha hain kitaab ko lekar. Ye mujhe bahoot disturb karti hai baat. Aap koi kitaab padhte ho toh usse express karna chahiye, toh aapke aas-paas ke logon ko pataa chale. Redistribute karo apne knowledge ko.

Main kissi teacher se poochta hoon ki kya aap class mein bataate hain ki aapne yeh kitaab padhi hai? Warna humein lagta hai ki master bangaye aur ek cheez ratli, yeh hi cheez har saal aate hain bataane ke liye. Humare Master jab humein ghar lekar gaye, toh unhone bataye ki “main itna padhta hoon, notes leta hoon, abhi bhi padhte hain”. Accha? Humein toh lagta tha ki ek bar padhliya toh aagaye sab. Isse teacher ko dekhne ka nazaariya badal gaya.

Kuch log samajhte hain ki “chaat aadmi hai”. Aap mat sunana. Hum toh apnaa kaam kar rahe hain. Hum apnaa kaam kaise chhodh dein? Padhne se ek level ke baad aap kaheinge ki “hum toh stagnate kar gaye”. Toh aap communicate kijiye. Baat hi nahi kijiyega toh kaise chalega? Yeh hi hota hai jab log kahte hain ki “yeh society baagi hogayi hai”. Aapne uss society ko hamesha diya nahi toh aap par gussa nikaal rahein hain. Aur jab aap information se bharne lagte hain, toh bahoot saare log kehte hain ki “samajh aagaya hai ki aap kya kaha rahe hain”. Toh aap demand karo ki aap de kya raho ho? Abhi bhi iss desh mein bacche bina teacher ke paas ho rahein hai. Aap chahte ho ki unhein iss kitaab ka pataa chale. Toh sab batao: reference, source, sab batao. Isse aapka phayda hoga. Usska toh hoga hi hoga, aapka bhi hoga.

Classes mein dekhenge toh na toh koi diversity, naa hi acche teacher hain. Aur jo das-bees acche teacher hain, woh…bhatak rahe hain. Unko raasta nahi mil raha hai. Ek jagah tikte, toh shaayad kuch kar jaate. Yahaan se bhaagte rehte hain. Hum teacher ke saath khade hojayein, toh aise hi teacher ko kaise baahar karde ga? Ek baar karega, doosri baar sochey ga ki pataa nahi students mein kya reaction ho. Aapko agar matlab nahi rahega toh phir kya hoga. Kyun nahi bacche khojte hain ki teacher kahan gaye? Poochna chahiye. Aise hi poochlo: “woh teacher kahan hain? Acche the.” Isse class se thoda na nikaal deyenge! Aapko ek-ek inch jagaah hasil karni padhegi. Aap ek-ek sawal poochiye. Aise koi plate mein democracy nahi dega.